recordinghacks

What was it like to work with ken as a producer?

RM: I love to tell this story, because I think Ken would have a different perspective!

I’m very good at not showing my emotions, because I like to present myself as a team player. Before we actually went in the studio to record with Ken on What If, which is our first meeting, he took us into a rehearsal facility and had us run through the songs that we were planning on recording. I remember this specifically. The very first song we played for him was “Take it off the Top.” This was just my second recording as a professional musician. I think a lot of younger musicians have a different perspective on reality. We tend to think it’s all about… [getting] every lick that you could get onto tape, because you just want all the drummers out there that are listening to you to think the world of you. And sometimes you tend to think about the drumming just as the drumming per se, and not about how it fits with the song that you’re trying to play. Part of the maturing process is recognizing that the song is the most important part of the big picture and what your drumming is supposed to do is just bring that important, perfect element to what that song needs.

So Ken said, “All right, let’s hear ‘Take it off the Top.'” We start playing, and I’m like [mimes wild drumming]… I’m this young, college music school graduate, and I have to get all my licks in there.

He stops the band and literally began to tear me apart, right and left. So by the end of the process of getting together, how we’re going to play this song, I went from this [mimes wild drumming] to … eighth notes on the bass drum and ride cymbal, and just floor tom [on the backbeat].
[audio:http://recordinghacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/dregs_tiott_excerpt.mp3]
He didn’t see this. Steam is coming out of my ears. I’m seeing myself throwing darts at him, going, “I hate this man. I don’t ever want to do this again.”

But, through the process, he kept saying to all of us, “You’ve got to trust me on this. I’ve been doing this a long time. I think, ultimately when you hear the end result, you’re going to understand where I’m coming from.”

And I remember getting the final mixes to the song. I know exactly where we were. We were sitting in the band bus. We were on tour a few months later, and we were getting ready to go see Emerson, Lake and Palmer in an arena, upstate New York. The record arrived. It was on a cassette. We all gathered around in our bus and listened to it, and it was like, “Yes! Yes! We are gods!” It was such a defining moment. And it was in that moment that I realized, I didn’t know anything. Here’s the mentor.

KS: You mean you hated me right up to that point!

RM: Not up to that point! Just the first day.

What is your favorite aspect of EpiK DrumS?

KS: EpiK DrumS has taken two years out of my life to put together, and there have been occasions when it seemed like a never-ending battle to reach the end of it. We finally have, and I’m exceedingly proud of it. It covers everything that I wanted, plus more.

It works as a sample library just for the drum sounds that can be played from Vdrums or any electronic drum kit, from a keyboard, anywhere you want to program just the separate sounds, it works great.

It works great for someone that doesn’t want to have to play the drum parts themselves, they don’t feel accomplished enough to do that … it’s a lot easier to put drum parts together with MIDI and all of that, and everything is perfect.

The grooves have more of the human-ality of playing drums. The snare drum isn’t always exactly on the beat. The bass drum is not always there. Someone can piece together a much more human-feeling drum track, and a guitarist can play over the top of Rod Morgenstein or Billy Cobham and have an incredible drum track behind it.

The other great thing about it for me is that all of the drums are multitracked. Every mic is on its own track. There are a lot of engineers these days that I’ve come across that have never actually recorded a real drum kit. From an educational standpoint, with all of the mics being separate, they can learn how to at least mix live drums, with all of the problems that occur with that, such as the cymbals leaking into tom mics, squeaks, drummers that go “uh, uh, uh-uh uh.”

We actually had to gaffer tape Rod’s mouth, during the recording of one of the albums, because he was so noisy.

For me, EpiK DrumS works on every level that I’ve just spoken about, and I’m exceedingly proud about it.

Rod, you’ve had a chance to hear it. What do you think?

RM: I’m blown away by what I’ve heard, and I’ve only heard a snippet of it at this point.

I think we, the drummers, had the easiest role in this, in that all we had to do is relearn a few songs that we’d already come up with the parts for, and just sit on the drum set for a bunch of hours and jam to our hearts’ content. It was then what has had to take place over the last year and a half, or longer, to get it to the point where it’s now available for people to make use of. I tip my hat to Ken and all of the engineers who have put blood, sweat, and tears into this incredible project.

I look froward to working with it myself, but I’m also very excited to know that there are people who will be making use of my drumming and the other guys’ drumming for their projects and hopefully they’ll find a lot of these things really inspiring.

KS: I have to say, Rod says about the drummers having the easiest part in this… if you saw the sweat that was pouring off of all of them. They’re all 30 to 40 years older when they originally played these parts. And they were having to play harder than they’ve played in many years. Being much older, it was tough for them. Each one gave 110%, absolutely.

RM: I also remember… Things are now — this is like psychotherapy!

I also remember, back then when we recorded, you kept telling me… I have to backtrack. I would say, “Ken, I want to the drums to sound big on these records that we do with you.” He kept saying, “The more signal you can give the mic, the better the drums are going to sound. And so you have to hit the drums hard. As hard as you’re hitting them, you have to hit them harder.” And again, it proved to be true.

You can argue this to death. There are probably other engineers and producers that would say, “Nah, just play the way you play. If you want to just tap the drums, it’s fine.” But I find… and I’ve had other people I’ve worked with in recent years [who agree], “Hit the drums harder than you can imagine and you will be delighted with how the drums sound.”

KS: I think what I’ve hope most for EpiK DrumS is that people will get it and use it in a totally unique way. It would be great to hear one of Rod’s drum tracks, and someone’s rapping over the top of it. Just to take what we did back then but use it in a modern form, in a totally different way. To hear that would be great.